|
1.To begin with, when and how did you first come to work with Suede
– can you remember your first impressions of meeting the band and
did you ever imagine that they would go on to achieve everything that
they have?
“The first time that I met Suede, was in Hackney, in a little rehearsal
studio right at the top of a house – this must have been about
’92 I think it was, yeah, about March ’92. Basically, I knew
Saul Galpern from my Island days – although I didn’t know
him very well at Island, but I had bumped into him a few times. He rang
me up and asked me to come down and see him in his new offices, because
he was starting a new label (Nude). His offices were in the West End
and I went down to see him and he played me the demo of The Drowners,
and a few other tracks including To The Birds, and I just thought they
were amazing! So I went and met with the band in Hackney and they were
very young and very polite, quite quiet, but obviously Brett was a star
you know (laughing), he was already Brett! But I could tell pretty much
on that first meeting, that musically, Bernard was the one with very
fixed ideas. I liked them a lot and they seemed like really nice guys
– I think we spent about 2 or 3 hours going through the songs and
we just talked about production, what they liked and what they didn’t
like, and I didn’t see them again until we started work about a
week later at our first session. In all honestly, I thought they would
be massive, I mean, I thought they were bigger than they were in my
own little way you know (laughing)? You see a band like that and you
just think, “This is the next massive band!””
2.As you produced all three of Suede’s classic albums, Stay
Together and lots of b-sides, how does it make you feel when people
describe you as an ‘unofficial member’ of the group, due to
your influence in helping them to shape their sound in the studio?
“Well, it’s very nice to get that, obviously, and it’s
a real achievement when people sort of make those conclusions, because
a lot of people don’t know what a producer does. I’m obviously
very happy if they think that, but I don’t necessarily think it’s
true, because if you take one of the things that I always really liked
about Suede, it’s the fact that they had such strong opinions themselves.
Every band that I work with – most bands anyway – I basically
work with them because they’re nice people (pausing), I used to
be in a band and even though I’m now 2 years shy of 50, I always
imagine when I’m making the record, that I’m in the band,
because that’s the easiest way if you sort of talk to them on their
level. With Suede, it was much easier, because I was only 28 and they
were all 20, so I was 8-years-older, but we still had a lot in common.
I think the thing I really liked about them, was that I had never worked
with a band that were that professional. Suede seemed so focused on
every aspect of being a band. They wanted it all perfect! I was really
surprised by the fact that they would (pausing), when I was working
on the first few songs, which was The Drowners, To The Birds and My
Insatiable One, if I was doing something that didn’t require the
band, they’d all go next door in the live room and just rehearse.
Then, once they’d run through their set, they would start playing
covers – they just liked playing so much! I’d never worked
with a band like that before, or since actually.”
3.Of all the arrangements and sounds that you helped bring to life over
the years, which are you most proud of?
“That’s like picking which are your favourite children! Each
record – I did three records with the band – and they’re
kind of like chapters in a book really, that’s how I look at them.
Obviously, in many ways, I regret enormously that I didn’t do more
chapters with them, but I didn’t really want to do anymore work
with them after Coming Up, because I was moving to America and I felt
they needed a change. In fact, I wasn’t the first person they picked
to do Coming Up, they wanted to work with somebody else, but they came
back to me (laughing)! I’m really glad that happened, because a
good friend of mine, Chris Kimsey, they went to see him about doing
a record – I’d done a record with Chris when I was in the
Psychedelic Furs – but he said to them, “You’re crazy,
you’ve got a fantastic relationship with Ed, why would you change
it?” That had quite an effect on them I think, so that was very
sweet of him.”
4.What are some of your favourite Suede guitar, bass, drum and piano
/ keyboard parts + vocal takes that you ‘captured’ on tape?
“I’m just trying to think of a guitar part really, to start
with, because I don’t want to say something that’s my favourite
and it’s not… it’s very hard! I mean, obviously with
guitar – and no disrespect to Richard – but for me, Suede
are really two bands. There’s a Suede with Bernard and there’s
a Suede without Bernard. The one without Bernard is a great band, a
fantastic band and I’m very proud of Coming Up (pausing), it will
be interesting to see if they decide to make another record, but the
Suede with Bernard was just something completely different. Bernard’s
the only person I’ve ever worked with in my entire career who I
would call a virtuoso! A virtuoso is where the human-being and the instrument
basically become one, and he’s the only person I’ve ever worked
with who fits that bill. I’ve worked with some very, very talented
musicians, but when Bernard picked up a guitar and started playing,
it was just extraordinary! So that personality, is one of the things
that I think a lot of people didn’t realise made Suede as good
as they were, because maybe they don’t understand how hard it is
to play the guitar in that way. I think Jonny Greenwood is probably
of that calibre as well. But it’s difficult to pick a song where
(pausing), you know, basically when you’re looking at Suede, you
think, “Ok, what are the songs where the guitar is playing such
an important role?” There’s a lot on the first record, but
on the second album, Bernard deliberately sort of took the guitar back
a bit so he could do other things, and I think one of the reasons why
that album is still my favourite, is because it’s the point where
Bernard really grew as an artist. So did Brett, they both grew enormously
on that album and their ambitions were vast on that record! I think
my frustration with Dog Man Star, other than the fact that it did bring
about the end of their relationship (pausing), to be honest and no matter
what people have said, it did not end as the result of that record,
that record had nothing to do with it. It ended because there were two
people heading towards each other at top-speed and they were going to
have a massive crash, and unfortunately, the crash happened at the same
time that that record was made. But, I think the record is brilliant!
So, if I had to go through that for guitar parts, for instance, a song
like The Wild Ones, you listen to that song and you walk away from that
song and the most powerful thing is the melody and the lyrics. But when
you look at it carefully, you can see how much excitement and beauty
the guitar part brings to it, especially in the verse – I mean,
that’s one of the best guitar parts I’ve ever heard on a record!
It was very similar to what Bernard was doing in Animal Nitrate, because
his standard approach to Suede songs at the time, was to play these
very flowery, lyrical guitar parts, that kind of fought against the
vocal. But it worked, because it was so good! With most other guitar
players, you tend to say to them, “Can you not solo during the
verse and wait until we get to the guitar solo point?” But with
Bernard, you just let him do it, because he was so good! I think that’s
the big frustration I have on Coming Up, is that there’s nothing
on Coming Up like that really, perhaps with the exception of Beautiful
Ones, which is a great riff and I think Richard should be very proud
of that riff. So, it would probably be either Animal Nitrate or The
Wild Ones.
Bass and drums, it’s difficult, because I think my favourite recording
from a sound and technical point-of-view – from everything that
I’ve ever done with Suede – is My Insatiable One. It was done
in the tape-machine room because they had a dedicated drum room at the
studio, but I didn’t like it, because it was like this big stone
room and it was just a bit over-the-top. Simon’s a very kind of
English drummer – he’s actually a very, very good drummer
and he plays in this really solid, almost bluesy way really. He’s
very good at slower tempos, and with My Insatiable One, I remember setting
him up by the tape-machine room and him grumbling, “Why I am sitting
out here?” It was very cold if I remember rightly, but I think
it’s the best drum sound we ever got! Everything about that take,
the snare sounds fantastic, the bass drum sounds great and the bass
– Simon and Mat played the song 3 or 4 times, but I think it was
the first take that I liked the best. This was long before editing,
so we didn’t use Pro Tools or anything like that. I think that’s
just a very, very solid bit of playing from the pair of them, they just
slotted together perfectly! Piano, I guess it would have to be The Next
Life, it still makes me cry because it’s such a moving song, it’s
just an amazing song and obviously, I now know – I didn’t
know at the time – but I now know that it’s about Brett’s
Mum. I just think there’s something about that song that’s
just so fantastic (pausing), in a way, Bernard – and again because
he’s such a clever musician – normally when guitar players
start to play piano, you think, “Oh God, this is going to be corny
and naff, semi-classical” you know? But Bernard just completely
avoided doing that and did the reverse, it’s almost like minimalism
really and it’s got a lot in common with Harold Budd. The chord
progressions, and he did the same thing on High Rising which I think
is a very underrated track, but the chords themselves aren’t particularly
complicated chords, it’s just that the harmony keeps shifting.
With Brett’s vocals, there are just so many – so many (laughing)!
It’s impossible, although I do love Daddy’s Speeding, because
it’s so different!”
5.Did Brett want a different vocal approach and a different vocal sound
for every track on individual albums?
“The thing that Brett was doing on the second album that was really
interesting, and again, this is one of the reasons why he’s such
a class act, is that he knows that vocals are (pausing), some singers
get behind the mic and they just sing. With Brett, everything’s
like an act to him, he gets into character. He doesn’t wander around
the control room trying to get into character, he just does it slowly,
but then he talks to you about the lyric and he puts the lyric down
in front of you and goes, “I want this word to sound like this.”
He gets quite obsessive and on Dog Man Star, the one that bugged him
the most, was The 2 Of Us, which I don’t like – it’s
the only vocal he’s ever done that I just don’t like, it’s
plumby and weird. Whereas on Daddy’s Speeding, he just got this
weird thing in his head where he wanted the word speeding to sound like
schhhpeeding (laughing), so it sounded like a car. He kept saying, “Does
it sound like a car Ed?” And I was like (laughing), “Yes,
it sounds like a car Brett – a big silver car going very, very
fast!” I just remember doing that vocal and I love that bit of
singing! I also think The Wild Ones is a great bit of singing! But then
again, even with the first album, he was getting away from this character
that he’d created before the band made a record. You can hear on
things like Pantomime Horse and Painted People, which is one of my least
favourite tracks, again because his character’s a bit over-the-top
– it’s a bit Tommy Steele (impersonating Tommy Steele singing
Painted People, then laughing). So, he tried to sort of rein that in.
There’s a couple of spots on Animal Nitrate where he came up with
this really cool sounding voice, which I really liked.”
*I ask Ed about Brett’s almost synthetic voice on Trash*
“Trash is the only thing in the entire history of working with
Brett, I think (pausing), I don’t know, you’d have to ask
him. But I would say that Trash is the only thing that he’s still
cross with me about. Everything else, if it didn’t turn out right,
he forgave me, because enough turned out well that he was really happy
with. If you listen to Trash on the 2003 Singles compilation, he actually
re-recorded the vocals!”
*I say that I much prefer the original Coming Up version, which thankfully,
is the version included on 2010’s Best Of*
“Well tell him, because so do I! What happened on that song was,
is that we did it and the history of that record, as I said, is that
I wasn’t supposed to do it. Saul kept coming round to my house
and saying, “Who are we going to get to do the Suede album?”
And I was like, “Dude, I don’t know (laughing), you’re
on your own there!” But because I like Saul a lot and I like the
band, I tried to give as much advice as possible and he said, “Do
you mind talking to Brett about it?” and I said, “No, I don’t
mind.” So I got in a cab and drove over to Brett’s which was
about 10 miles from my house, he lived in Notting Hill and I lived in
Belsize Park. I had a chat with him and Richard and I just said, “Look,
you know, I think this is the kind of record that you should do and
you should find someone who can help you to do that.” Then, at
the end of the conversation they said, “Well, do you fancy doing
it?” and I was like, “Yeah, of course I’ll do it if you
want me to!” So we started off the record with a blueprint, which
is that it was basically going to be their pop record. So all of the
things that we did on Dog Man Star, we were not going to do on this
record and basically, the record would consist of two types of songs,
either big smashes or album tracks – nothing in-between. The record
was designed that way, so it was recorded very specifically – we
did a month on the drums – and I said, “Look, if we’re
going to make a dance record, we’ve got to start using computers,
because we’ve got to make sure that our sound is as fat and as
chunky and as dancey as possible.” So we did a month in the Townhouse
just doing drums, and basically, the way the album started, the blueprint
was Tanx by T.Rex – I actually thought The Slider was a better
choice, but Brett always had a different take on things. I always looked
at The Slider as being the ultimate T.Rex album, but he’s right,
Tanx is actually a better record, because it’s more interesting.
Basically, what we did, is that every track started with acoustic guitar,
bongos, tambourine and Brett, so it all started life pretty much the
same way that Marc Bolan recorded all of his stuff originally. He started
with an acoustic guitar song and then he’d build it up with guitar
and drums and electronics. So the foundation of the songs on Coming
Up, is a groove made-up out of kongas, tambourine and acoustic guitar.
On most of the tracks on the album, all of that has been removed –
you can hear a lot of it on Beautiful Ones, you can still hear the kongas
and the acoustic guitar in the verse. But on Trash and all the other
tracks, all of that got removed. It was there to start with, it was
our click-track, so instead of having a normal click-track, we had a
Marc Bolan ‘60s click-track (laughing), that was the vibe on the
record! When we started to do vocals, one of the agreements was that
we wouldn’t use so many reverbs, we’d just use little delays.
That obviously just started to go out of the window, because Brett can’t
stand his voice being dry – he can’t stand it! He has to have
lots of effects. So by the time we got to Trash, one of my problems
was that Brett was smoking quite a lot during those days and when we
got a tempo, I said, “Ok, let’s do the song,” and he’d
say, “That’s far too fast!” Then I said, “Well hang
on Brett, it’s not far too fast, you want it to be a dance record.”
But he’d say, “No, slow it down, slow it down.” We had
a good enough relationship where we could boss each other about and
he’d be like, “Alright, alright, not as much on that, more
on that, now slower,” so I’d just keep slowing it down until
we got to a tempo that he was happy with. Then he’d come in and
say, “That’s a dirge, that’s not a dance song, it’s
a ballad for fuck’s sake – it’s too fast!” I was
like, “Just try it!” So every song we had this argument on
– every single song! It was ok, it wasn’t an unpleasant argument,
it was a funny argument!
There was one song where I completely lost and he was dead right, and
that was a track called She. I came in one day with the big concern
that the record was lacking singles, so I said, “I don’t think
She is the right speed, I think it could be massive if you sped it up,
it’s such a great song!” So we tried to speed it up, but everybody
just said, “You’re out of your mind, part of its appeal is
that it’s slow.” And they were right, they were dead right,
She was much better slow. So on that one, I was wrong. But Trash was
always too slow, so we recorded it and we got to the mixing stage (pausing),
again, one of the things that makes that album so much better than the
other two in terms of sound, is that we had Dave Bascombe come in and
mix it. I’d always mixed the Suede records, but I quite often enjoy
having somebody else mix my records. Because when you’ve recorded
and produced the record, by the time you get to the mixing stage, you
kind of do need somebody to come in with fresh ears and without any
attachment, to say, “Look, it could sound like this.” So this
was the first time that I had a proper mixer, like a big budget mixer
and he was just brilliant! A huge part of the sound of that record is
his input, he did a really, really good job on that album. To this day,
I think he deserves more credit than he got – I think we shared
the mixing credit, because there’s some tracks that I mixed. He
even did a recall, so I think it’s only two tracks that are just
my mixing, so he had a massive input onto that record and it just would
not have sold or sounded anything like as good as it did, without him.
One of the things that he did when he heard Trash, was that he said
it was too slow (laughing)! I said, “You’re right” and
he said, “Right, let’s speed it up a bit,” and he sped
it up – without me! Brett was there and there was some Moog filtering
on the vocals we did live, I had a big modular system by then, so we
put all of the backing vocals through the Moog filters. So, Brett was
there when it was being done and he was happy with it, then eventually
and I can’t remember who, but some journalist said, “I really
like that song, you sound like you’re on helium.” That was
about 2 years later – I think that’s what happened –
but that just pissed him off! I was going to do the last album (A New
Morning), but I’m very glad I didn’t, because I didn’t
think they had the songs actually. I remember discussing it at the time,
we had quite a few phone calls and on one of the phone calls he said,
“I’m worried if you do this record, you’re going to screw
it up like you did Trash.” I said, “What did I do (surprised)?”
and he said, “You sped up my vocals.” So I said, “Well
A. I didn’t, that was Dave Bascombe and B. It sounds fine.”
He said, “Don’t be stupid, I sound like fucking Pinky and
Perky.” So, he’s got a very strong opinion about the track,
but I think it’s brilliant! The blueprint for that song, was New
Generation, which I completely fucked up! The trouble with New Generation,
is that it’s in the wrong key – I tried to get Bernard to
change the key but he wouldn’t have it, because one of the problems
you’ve got with guitar players, especially people with the skill
of Bernard, is that they use a lot of open strings, so it had to be
in a certain key for it to work. But the problem with Brett, is that
when you get to the chorus (singing “Here in my head”), that
note just doesn’t hit. He was always right on the edge of not sounding
his best, so the vocal wasn’t great, and the second problem was
the mix, which is probably the worst mix I’ve ever done in my life!
I was so self-conscious about the vocal, that I just drenched it in
the wrong kind of reverb and the drums are appalling – it’s
just a really, really bad mix! If someone puts it on, I have to leave
the room, it sounds so bad! So Trash was basically my attempt to redo
New Generation (laughing).”
*I ask Ed how many vocal takes Brett allows himself when recording*
“Of all the singers I’ve worked with, Brett’s the most
aware of what he did. There’s a great story a friend of mine told
me, which is quite an unbelievable story, Gary Stout, the guy who engineered
all of the Suede records with me, he was an assistant in LA – his
job was to basically make tea and tidy things up, being a run-around.
But the studio he was working at, Barbra Streisand turned up to do a
vocal and she had a trailer in the parking lot, and she basically stayed
in her trailer until they were ready, then they would go and knock on
her door and she would come out, walk straight through the studio into
the live room, stand by the microphone and say, “Off you go.”
They would roll the tape and she did about 20 takes, then she would
walk into the control room and say, “I’d like to hear take
4, take 7 and take 19.” When they played take 18 by mistake, she
said, “No, that’s take 18, can we hear take 19!” She
was that aware of what she was doing. Brett wasn’t to that extent,
but he was pretty fucking close! In the studio, he’d do 3 or 4
takes and then he’d come back into the control room and say, “Can
I hear take 4? I really like take 4.” So, I’d play him take
4 and then he’d go, “Ok, listen to the second line of the
first chorus in take 1, that’s great!” Then we’d listen
back to it and I’d say, “Yeah, that is really good!”
But he’d say, “I can do that better” and I was like,
“But Brett, that’s brilliant!” Then he’d go, “No,
no, I can do it better” and he’d go in and do it better! He’s
probably the only singer I’ve worked with, who’s that much
in control of his voice. He’s got this thing and again, if you’re
in the control room with him and you’re talking about an idea and
you go, “I can synch that melody there in the chorus,” he’ll
say, “Hang on, play it” and he’ll pick up the guitar
and then he’ll open his mouth and then he’ll belt it at full
volume as if he’s live onstage! Every other singer I’ve worked
with – other than Liam actually from The Courteeners, he’s
a bit like that – but every other singer I’ve worked with,
sort of mumbles it and half sings it. Whereas Brett, bang, just goes
into character, rock ‘n’ roll God and sings it full-flow!”
6.Sonically and structurally, were there any songs that drastically
changed or grew out of others, which could almost be thought of as companions?
“Um, I’m trying to think… no, not really. I suppose By
The Sea was always a bit tricky, because it took a long time to get
that right – the piano parts – Neil spent all day playing
them and it drove him nuts poor lad. That morphed into something a bit
more psychedelic, because it started out a bit more basic. It was more
the b-sides, because they were the things where we allowed ourselves
a bit more freedom, but generally (pausing and exhaling a deep breath),
I don’t know… Still Life is the only track that I really think
fails, because it’s too over-the-top! It was a nice idea, but it
is so pretentious. Sometimes I listen to it and I think we pulled it
off, but other times I listen to it and I think, “Ok, that was
a step too far.” It’s difficult, because on Dog Man Star,
a lot of it was experimental, like a lot of Daddy’s Speeding started
off with (pausing), see, I didn’t know what a lot of these songs
sounded like, because on the first album, they could play them as a
band, but on the second album, they really couldn’t play anything
as a band. In fact, half of it was recorded with everybody separately,
partly because of the difficult relationship Bernard was having with
people at the time. So, it’s difficult and I can’t think of
a Suede track that we really radically altered in production, no. I
think they all pretty much turned out the way we intended.”
7.Which track caused the most discussion and debate amongst you all,
and did you have many ‘happy accidents’ in the studio in terms
of musical ideas / directions?
“As for which track caused the most discussion and debate amongst
us, I think Trash is probably the only song where Brett was disappointed,
but you’d have to ask him. I think pretty much every other song
(pausing), I know everybody – because it’s obvious –
talks about the sonics on Dog Man Star, but it’s not really the
sonics, it’s the mixing. But I don’t think there’s other
contentious songs really. I mean, sometimes Brett’s vision of what
a song should be was different to Bernard’s, which is where a lot
of the tension came from. Probably the worst, was The Asphalt World,
because in rehearsals it had a 20-minute guitar solo. It took a long
time and I tackled it in 8 bar segments – every week I’d say
to Bernard, “Can we get rid of these 8 bars?” I’d slowly
wear him down (pausing), I felt sorry for him, but it was just difficult,
because what he wanted to do was so different to what Brett wanted to
do by that point. That’s a really good song and I think it turned
out really well, and again, most of that (pausing), Bernard was in such
a weird place making that record, but he was coming up with some of
the most inventive music that I’d ever heard, but he was obviously
a bit of an emotional wreck. His Dad had died and I don’t think
he enjoyed being in the band, so all he enjoyed was the music. We built
this little living room for him in the live room, because he just didn’t
like being in the control room, he felt it was a bit too restrictive.
So we built him this little lounge, like something from a post-war living
room movie – it had two couches, carpet, a standard mic, two massive
speakers and a television… you can hear him tuning the TV in the
intro for The Asphalt World, he was just sitting there, playing with
the TV. So that was a ‘happy accident’, because it was all
accidental and we left the tape rolling – I was trying to talk
to him about something and the TV was on. He came and listened to it
and smiled – it was one of the rare days where he smiled (laughing).
It’s a bit difficult really, because I’m now friends with
Bernard, I saw him a couple of weeks ago and we went out for a drink,
but someone had a massive fight with him during the recording of Dog
Man Star and he stormed out and sat on the bonnet of his car. He was
so pissed off with everybody and he didn’t want to speak to us,
but he started playing this Dobro, which is like a metal acoustic guitar
with a resonator on. And so me and Gary, just to sort of break the ice
really, we dragged a couple of microphones out into the street and mic’d
him up and that’s the beginning of The Wild Ones. If you listen
to it very carefully, you can hear the buses and you can hear at one
point Gary shout. So, if you put headphones on, you can hear Bernard
quite clearly sitting on the top of a car, playing an acoustic guitar
with all of the noises that were going on in the background!”
8.Which LP was the quickest to record and which one took the longest
+ what’s the simplest recording and the most complex multi-tracked
recording the band has ever committed to tape?
“The longest LP to finish, was definitely Coming Up, it took 9
months! My memory of Coming Up, was that it was one of the funnest records
I’ve ever made – and again, not to knock Bernard – but
the mood of the band was completely different. By the time Bernard left
the band, it really was 3 people and 1 person, they had nothing in common,
they hardly spoke to each other and it was just nothing but tense. So
making Dog Man Star was the most unpleasant record I’ve ever made,
in terms of atmosphere and vibe, and even though I love listening to
it, it’s painful for me, because I can remember how difficult it
was for everybody to make it. It was not a nice experience and it was
like being caught in the middle of a family row for 3 or 4 months! But
Coming Up was the reverse, and Brett was completely in charge on that
record – it was the first record he was completely in charge of.
Which to some people, would have meant that they got carried away, but
not Brett, because he was so disciplined and that was one of the things
that I really liked about him. Which is why I was so surprised to see
him sink into drug oblivion, because when I knew him, he wasn’t
like that, he was very, very disciplined and he was great on that record!
He was so much fun to be with – they all were! So my experience,
even though it took forever – we started in December ’95 and
we didn’t finish until June ’96, and we went to loads and
loads of different studios – it was a very pleasant record to make.
There wasn’t any tension or fights, and we all got on really, really
well! Richard and Neil did very well you know, being new members of
the band – there was just a great feeling and it was a really enjoyable
record! The first album was great, because it was the first album I’d
ever done, where I felt like I was working with what could be one of
the biggest bands in the world! We had to stop so they could go and
do the Brits and they debuted their new single live on the Brits –
I was there for that and I had to go and sit in the soundcheck and help,
so that was amazing! I thought, “These guys are kids really”
and they played Animal Nitrate to millions of people live! I mean, God,
how scary is that? That was a very, very exciting record, because you
really felt like everybody was waiting for it! So, three very different
records (laughing)! My favourite is probably Dog Man Star, but it’s
very hard, because they are literally like 3 kids. In terms of the simplest
recording and the most complex multi-tracked recording the band has
ever committed to tape, the simplest and easiest would be The Living
Dead, without a shadow of a doubt. It was just a live vocal, with a
live acoustic guitar and I think we overdubbed a little bit of synth
to sound like an oboe. The most complicated, oh Christ, it’s difficult
to say, because in terms of complexity, with Still Life, there’s
an orchestra and that’s quite complicated and there’s a lot
on that song. But, there are other songs that are fiddly, Introducing
The Band was fiddly, because there’s lots of parts. Trash (pausing),
the thing about Trash, which again is one of the reasons why I love
Dave Bascombe, everytime we’d pull that song up and we’d do
a rough mix – because back in those days we weren’t using
computers – when you put the tape on the tape-machine, you had
to physically push all of the faders up. I’d say, “Give me
half-an-hour and I’ll make it sound good,” but I always found
that track very hard to make sound good, but then Bascombe did one of
the best mixes on the record! So for some reason, and I don’t know
why, that was quite a fiddly track to get right.”
9.Do you know if there are a lot of unreleased songs in the band’s
archives?
“No (without any hesitation), generally there’s not –
there’s about 5 tracks that I’ve got, that don’t have
vocals on them. They were great, but unfortunately, Bernard and Brett
couldn’t see eye-to-eye, so they didn’t get finished and they
never should be finished, because they couldn’t agree (pausing),
that Beatles track that came out on Anthology, Free As A Bird, I know
for a fact that Lennon would have been appalled at that. So, I’m
pleased that there’s stuff in the archives that won’t see
the light of day to be honest with you. The thing that I love about
Suede, up until the point that I stopped working with them, I think
everything they did was great! After I stopped working with them, and
again, it’s got nothing to do with me, but I think the quality
of their output dropped and certainly by the last album, it had dropped
a lot. I think one of the things they’re proud of, is that the
quality of their output is generally very, very high! And certainly,
Sci-Fi Lullabies is a testament to how good they were even on b-sides.
I think Electricity from Head Music is a great song though (pausing),
the thing about Suede with electronics, it was always very difficult
to get right and I always had to have a reference point, because if
I’d have done what I like with electronics, it would have stuck
out too much. Bernard didn’t really know anything about synthesisers
until the second album – he went out and bought a synth and because
he’s such a brilliant musician, he took to it very naturally. On
Daddy’s Speeding for instance, he’s playing a synthesiser,
but when there’s a noise at the end, like a turbine, which is supposed
to be the engine blowing-up, we did that on my Moog.”
10.Do you have a favourite opening and closing album track + a favourite
song intro, middle-section and outro?
“Introducing The Band is the best introduction to a record that
I’ve ever heard I think, it’s such a perfect track! When Brett
told me what he was doing, I just laughed, but he was so ambitious on
that record, he was like, “This is going to be our first attempt
at blowing everybody away!” How many bands do that on their second
album? The thing that was so (pausing), again, there’s not enough
credit, but Saul Galpern – their A&R guy – if you’re
talking about a fifth member of Suede, Saul’s as good a candidate
as I am, because he was very supportive of them being themselves. I
really can’t think of another A&R man who I’ve ever worked
with, who halfway through a record like Dog Man Star, will come down
to the studio, listen to it and not go, “What the fuck are you
doing?” Everytime Saul came down, he was just blown away, he said,
“This is fantastic, I don’t hear any singles, but I don’t
care, this is monumental!” He was absolutely brilliant and the
band were very, very fond of Saul, but (laughing), they were quite off-hand
with him. He would come down and go, “Can I hear something?”
and they were like, “No, you can buy it in the shops like everybody
else!” You know, they were only half-joking, especially Bernard.
He’d say, “I don’t want you to listen to it yet, it’s
not ready.” Which you can understand, but he was just great, a
total supportive influence, whereas most A&R people are worried
about radio and singles. A favourite closing album track would definitely
be The Next Life, it’s the ultimate end to a record – it doesn’t
get any better than that! I don’t know if I have a favourite song
intro, middle-section and outro, because they’re all so different…
I suppose I like the beginning of So Young, because it’s quite
gritty and with Brett yelling, it’s just very exciting! See, that’s
the thing that a lot of bands don’t really know how to capture,
that feeling that something happened in the studio, where with all of
Suede’s songs, you didn’t really have to put that feeling
into it, because it was already there. Pantomime Horse, I love the way
that begins, it’s got a ridiculous amount of effects on it, but
that’s what they liked and so I said alright – it’s almost
electronic at the beginning, there’s a big thick bed of noise which
I really like. Beautiful Ones, what a great guitar part (singing riff),
it’s absolutely brilliant and that’s Richard’s tour-de-force
that song, it’s an absolutely stunning riff and a brilliant bit
of playing! As I said, there are two Suede’s – the Bernard
Suede and the Richard Suede – and that’s the peak of the Richard
Suede I think. For an outro, I do like The Wild Ones, the way it ends
– we came up with that in the studio. Bernard’s outro never
worked, so as soon as he’d left the band, we got rid of that. It
was a cool bit of music actually, but it just didn’t work and I
actually came up with the ending of The Wild Ones, where Brett keeps
singing, “Oh, if you stay…” I kept repeating it –
I did it as an edit on the tape-machine and played it to Brett, and
he said, “Yeah, I love that!” So, I kind of like the way that
ends, because it feels like it stepped up. I like Animal Lover, I think
there’s some really cool guitar playing on it, I mean, there’s
about 5 guitar parts but it works! But, there all so different you see,
because a lot of bands try to basically write the same song over and
over again, like The Rolling Stones, who’ve spent all of their
life writing the same songs. There are variations, but you know what
you’re getting. Whereas if you look at Suede, they’re much
more like Bowie, which is an obvious thing to say because he was a massive
influence, but the thing about Bowie is, if you listen to Aladdin Sane
and Low, they’re two very, very different records – it’s
almost like different artists. That’s what’s great about Suede,
they kept that sort of feeling alive throughout those three records.
You know, Coming Up is probably the most consistent, because we reined
it in a bit basically and made a more straightforward record. But even
on that album, there are still unusual songs like Picnic By The Motorway.”
11.Were the group ever conscious of writing singles, or was the
focus more on creating albums to be listened to as a whole, along with
being packaged in iconic artwork – and of Suede’s b-sides,
are there any that you think should have been album tracks?
“Brett was a very ambitious character and so was Bernard, especially
in the beginning, Bernard really wanted to be on Top Of The Pops and
to have a # 1 record, but on his terms! He had no interest in doing
anything that was obvious, and if somebody said, “Well look, if
you do this, then you’re likely to get on Top Of The Pops,”
he would do the reverse – in a good way, because musically, he
wanted to push himself! Which was one of the things that I really enjoyed
about him. Brett was the same, but he wanted things to be a ‘hit’
(pausing), perhaps the only problem we had on Coming Up I suppose, is
that there was a nasty day, where we had to sort of sit him down and
say, “You haven’t got enough songs.” I felt really bad
about that, because the meeting was set-up with me, Saul and Charlie,
Suede’s Manager, at Saul’s office. Brett came in one Sunday
and he was obviously annoyed, because it was almost like he was pulled
into the office for a talking to and he didn’t deserve it, he really
didn’t. I regret that. But that was an occasion where we sat him
down and said, “We haven’t got enough singles.” We did,
they just weren’t there yet. He looked us in the eye and said,
“I can’t believe you’re doing this, you’re a bunch
of pussies,” and he was dead right, he really was! As I said, those
three albums are all so different, but they could write singles accordingly.
With b-sides, there are loads that could have been album tracks and
I wouldn’t know where to begin. That’s the thing about Sci-Fi
Lullabies – which is one of the best names for an album ever –
it’s a good record on its own. I can think of so many bands who
would be proud to have that as an album, let alone as a collection of
b-sides! Up until Coming Up, when the b-sides started to get a little
weaker, certainly on the first album and Dog Man Star, I mean what’s
a bad b-side?”
*Ed pulls up Suede’s back catalogue on his computer*
“The Living Dead, My Dark Star – which is brilliant, absolutely
brilliant – My Insatiable One, To The Birds (laughing), it doesn’t
get any better and all of these are good quality album tracks! I think
High Rising was a much better track than a b-side warranted. What else
have we got… Eno’s Introducing The Band, God, what a waste
of time that was! Killing Of A Flashboy, that’s a great song and
should have been on an album (pausing), there was another one that we
did, Together, I think it was called (singing) “We should get together.”
I mean, I thought that was a single, I really did and we were going
to re-record that for Coming Up – I don’t know why we didn’t,
but I thought that was a great song! We did that in Wessex over Christmas
and I remember that my daughter had just been born, and I remember going
into the studio – I think it was the week after Christmas –
and just thinking, “This is amazing, what a great song!" I
wished we’d released it as a single, but it’s too late now.”
12.There are a number of different stories about Bernard’s dissatisfaction
with your production techniques on Dog Man Star, so is there anything
that you would like to say on this matter?
“You’ve got to bear in mind that I was 30 or 31, it was a
long time ago and I can barely remember some of the things that happened.
I can’t speak for Bernard, and as I said, I’ve seen him since,
we don’t hang out or anything (laughing), but the last time I saw
him we went for a drink and I really enjoyed his company! It was very
good to see him, and I’m very pleased that he’s now regarded
as a successful producer in his own right, because he deserves to be!
Looking back on it, I think there were things that he wanted to get
right on the record that I was not capable of doing, because I really
wasn’t a skilful enough manipulator of the sounds that he was throwing
at me, to do what he wanted me to do, I just wasn’t. Which is great,
because it’s nice to be in a situation where you’re being
challenged by your artists, but I think the things he wanted, either
I didn’t understand, or in some cases, I didn’t agree with.
But for the most part, we got on very, very well on that record –
he didn’t get on with anybody else (pausing), in fact, I don’t
think the band and Bernard were in the studio together once during the
making of Dog Man Star. I don’t think so – for the bulk of
it – and if they were, it was only for a matter of hours. So in
the 3 months we made the record, they were kept away, so Bernard would
be there on his own, or Brett, Mat and Simon would be there, and Bernard
would go home. Because the feelings between them were really bad, they
really didn’t like each other and I was caught in the middle, and
then when things erupted, finally he quit. The only way that they could
tempt him back, was if he was basically put in charge of making the
record on his own without me, and they didn’t want that, so that’s
why he ended up leaving. But I think in terms of what I did, the trouble
with that record was that if you gave it to somebody like Brendan O’Brien,
or Flood, or Alan Moulder, or Andy Wallace and said, “Can you mix
this?” I think that album would be amazing, because I think that
everything that’s on tape, is really good! The biggest problem
with that album, is the mixes. I mean, some tracks turned out alright,
I think The Wild Ones doesn’t sound too bad, The Asphalt World
sounds kind of cool – it’s trashy, but I think it works. But
other songs like New Generation are appalling, and the songs that Bernard
didn’t finish, suffered terribly, because he didn’t finish
them! On The Power, we had to get a guitar player in to play Bernard’s
parts and it always sounded terrible. This guy was a brilliant guitar
player, but even he (pausing), we were playing Bernard’s demos
on a 4-track – now with a computer we would have been alright,
but we never used them in those days. But this guy just couldn’t
get it right, and it’s a real shame you know, but looking back
on it, I’m proud of what I did and I think this new Best Of release
proves that I sort of did a good job. I think Bernard will also probably
be proud of what he did and with what I did, to a degree. I mean, the
hardest artist I ever worked for, was my Dad you know? I couldn’t
keep him happy, but that’s what proper, full-on musicians are like!
It had to be perfect and it never was. The big difference between Bernard
and Brett – and this isn’t a dig – because they’re
just different people, but if you did something that Bernard liked,
you’d know it because he wouldn’t be critical and he wouldn’t
ask you to change it, that would be it, he’d be happy. But if there
was something that Brett liked, you’d get a phone call at 4 in
the morning from him going, “This is brilliant, this is absolutely
brilliant!” He would be so happy, like a kid at Christmas! I remember
doing Saturday Night, he forced me to stay up all night to finish that
song. I was about to go home and he said, “Can we do a little rough
mix of Saturday Night?” and I was like, “Oh, Brett,”
because I wanted to go home (laughing) and I couldn’t stay up all
night like he could. I said, “I want to go home, it’s 10 o’clock
at night,” and he said, “Oh come on, just a quick one?”
He was so charming (laughing), so we went upstairs to another control
room, set the tape-machine up and we were there until 5 in the morning,
and that became the mix on the record! We’d only been making the
record for about 2 months I think, and that was the first thing to get
finished. He was so happy, I mean, he literally went home that day and
played it all day long and I think there’s a story of a funeral
going on next door, and they were banging on the walls trying to get
him to stop playing the music. He literally listened to it in a loop
for 24 hours! So you’d know when Brett was happy and you’d
know when Bernard was happy! In a weird way, out of all the people I’ve
worked with, even though it was tough working with Bernard sometimes,
not because he was unsociable, because he really wasn’t unsociable
– he was a really nice bloke. Literally, until the day he went
home, I didn’t even know he was mad with me, he just left. I got
a phone call from Charlie saying, “Brett’s just told me that
Bernard’s quit.” Then about 4 days later, it was like, “He’ll
only come back if he can produce the record without you,” and I
was like (surprised), “What? Why?” I had no idea that he was
that cross with me, but after working with him during those years, I
just now look back on it and think I was so lucky to have worked with
him! We’re now friends again, but it wasn’t that big of a
deal to be honest, it was nothing to get that upset about. I don’t
want to speak out of turn about Bernard, but I think the big difference
between Brett and Bernard, and it was a massive, massive, massive difference,
which was always going to cause a problem sooner or later. With Brett,
he loved music and was a totally committed musician, but also loved
the idea of being a pop star. Bernard hated the idea of being a pop
star – absolutely hated it! I actually told him when I was working
with him (laughing), that he really reminded me of one of my heroes
when I was a kid, who was Mike Oldfield. I always thought that Mike
Oldfield was a very similar character to Bernard, because he was emotionally
quite tightly wound-up, which Bernard was as well. He came from a fairly
strict Catholic (pausing), he had a firm upbringing, not in a messed-up
way, because Bernard had a very clear sense of right and wrong –
he didn’t think the rock ‘n’ roll lifestyle was a good
thing at all, he thought it was all a bit deviant and disrespectful,
which definitely caused him problems. Then, when his Dad died, it was
so unexpected, because his Dad had a back-ache one week and he died
of cancer a month later. It was so appallingly quick, it was awful!
He already had a bit of a bad relationship with his brothers, so I think
he was under an incredible amount of pressure that we had no idea about
(pausing), the best thing that happened to him really I think, was his
wife, who was his girlfriend at the time – she was wonderful and
looked after him. So unfortunately, he went through a really rough patch
and he went through it in public, with all of these people applying
an awful lot of pressure on him to come up with the next great record.
It’s not fair to say he snapped, because he didn’t snap in
a conventional way, because that would make it sound like he didn’t
handle the pressure well. He handled it the way he handled it, but I
think all he really cared about, was the music. He was absolutely obsessed
with getting everything right, to a degree that I’ve never seen
in another person, other than my father – my father was like that!
I think the others enjoyed being in a band (laughing), they wanted to
get it right, but they were also a lot more laid back and enjoyed being
in a band!”
13.Are you pleased that Suede’s comeback has been so successful,
and if they do decide to carry on after their London O2 Arena show /
make another record, would you like to work with them again?
“I am pleased that Suede’s comeback has been so successful
(pausing), I had a real problem when I moved to America in ’97,
because you know, I thought I’d worked with one of the best bands
ever and people were like (adopting a ‘who are they?’ tone),
“Suede.” Even when I came back to England in 2005, I had a
lot of meetings and it was always Pulp we went on about, never Suede.
But now, I’m starting to realise that there are a lot of people
out there who do really love Suede. As to whether or not I would like
to work with them again, it’s always down to the quality of the
material, but, I would leap at the opportunity to work with Suede again,
if we all agreed that we were making a record that had to be as good
as their best work. I think it’s right for a band to be cautious,
because I think the worst thing that you could do is to weaken the back
catalogue by coming out with a bad record. Brett said in an interview
once, and it was really funny (laughing), he said, “Every band
makes a bad record, they should be allowed to make a bad record.”
I think he’s right, but the trouble is, we live in a different
world now and when you come back after a long absence, you’ve just
got to make sure that you don’t pick-up where you left off, that
you take it to the next level! I totally think they’re all capable
of doing that, I think they’re great musicians and I think Brett’s
one of the best frontmen we’ve ever had, but I would like to see
them do something very ambitious. I think if they went back into the
studio and just tried to do a basic Suede album with a couple of singles,
then no, I wouldn’t be interested. But if they said, “We want
to make this amazing record that people will talk about for the next
50 years,” I’d be like, “Yeah!””
*I ask Ed how he feels that out of the 35 songs on Suede’s Best
Of, 30 of them were produced by him, and also, if there are any tracks
he feels should have been included*
“Well, great and it’s quite a collection! I would have liked
to have seen Daddy’s Speeding on there, that’s one of my favourite
tracks, but it’s a very good compilation, especially when you think
that the band have only made 5 albums and the Best Of is a double collection,
yet there’s still great songs which have been left off! I like
the cover painting as well and artwork was always vital to Brett –
I really like the sleeve for Head Music too, I think that’s a wonderful
cover! I was living in America when Head Music came out and it really
felt a bit like Coming Up part 2, the booklet and the sound, it just
felt like it was a very similar record.”
14.Some final quickfire Suede questions, do you have a treasured recording
session, memory, gig, melody, chorus and lyric?
“I don’t have a treasured recording session, because there
are so many! We recorded in San Francisco, we recorded in LA, we recorded
everywhere – there are loads of memorable sessions, so I don’t
remember any particular (pausing), I’m obviously very fond of the
first session, that’s a magical memory, doing The Drowners. I remember
going home and lying in bed, playing it for about 4 hours – I just
kept rewinding it and playing it again, because I thought, “That’s
a ‘hit’, I’ve recorded my first ‘hit’!”
A memory would be (pausing), I had a mad idea about recording The Living
Dead in the bathroom, so we spent about an hour setting up the mics
in the bathroom – it was a little toilet and Bernard had to sit
on the loo with an acoustic guitar, and Brett stood by the door. They
played it and then they came in and listened and we all fell about laughing,
because it sounded so bad! It was so awful, it literally sounded like
two people in a toilet (laughing)! Brett was like, “Is that the
sound you’re after?” Then I had another disaster, because
most of my ideas were very wacky and off-the-wall (pausing), well, sometimes,
not all of the time. Like on The Big Time, I had this weird idea, I
said, “The trouble with this song is that it has no sort of space
and it would be nice to locate it somewhere.” I just felt like
that at the time, so I said, “What I’m going to do, is to
try and make it sound like you’re in an art gallery.” So I
recorded all of the people walking round the library in high-heels,
because I wanted to give it the feel of being in a train station or
something massive, so that was fun, and Brett was quite impressed by
that. Then I felt a bit over-confident and I thought, “I reckon
I can take it up to the next level.” The next level was that I
got in all of this sand and I got in a tap-dancer to dance on it, but
that was a disaster, and Brett looked at me and said, “So we’re
going to chalk this one down as a massive failure then?” and I
was like, “Yes, yes, yes!” I was after this effect that was
in the movie Top Hat, with Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, there’s
a wonderful scene where Fred Astaire has woken her up by tap-dancing
upstairs, but then he spreads sand on the floor of his hotel room to
quieten the sound. So, I wanted to put all of this sand on the floor,
as it’s really soft and it has a fantastic sound, a bit like a
snare drum – I just wanted to get that effect in a song, but it
was abysmal. I don’t think the tap-dancer understood what I was
trying to do (laughing)! For a gig, I’ve seen them so many times,
but I went with my wife to see them in America on their first tour over
there – I knew they were nervous, so I thought it would be nice
to surprise them and show my support. So we went straight to the airport,
got on a plane and got to New York, flew down to Washington – none
of the band knew we were there – and we went to the 9:30 Club in
the afternoon for the soundcheck. Their sound guy came out and said,
“Oh, hi Ed, blimey, what are you doing here?” But Brett being
Brett, when we walked into their dressing room after flying thousands
of miles to see them, he said, “Alright Ed, pass me that water
will you?” I was like, “Hello Brett,” and felt like a
pranny (laughing)! But the gig was fantastic and Bernard’s jeans
were literally slipping down his arse as he was playing guitar –
he was definitely trying to keep it all together, but he was really,
really fucking amazing! He did not stop playing guitar, but at the same
time, he was slowly moving his body down to keep his trousers up! I’ve
seen them play live more than any other band and I think I lost count
after 30 or 40 times. I’m going to see them on Tuesday at the O2
Arena, I’ve just texted Brett and the last time I saw him was in
Australia, although we talked about doing A New Morning around 2000
and I’ve got two sets of demos which were sent to me then. I don’t
think I could choose a favourite melody or chorus, and with a lyric,
you’ve got to be joking! The thing about Brett is, is that he can
be clever, Elvis Costello clever, “Nothing here works but your
works,” that’s a classic Brett lyric and then he can be poignant
you know? By The Sea is very poignant, The 2 Of Us is very poignant,
The Next Life is very poignant. He’s a fantastic lyricist, one
of the best I’ve ever heard! After working with Brett, that’s
when I really first fell in love with lyrics, because I didn’t
really listen to them, I liked lyrics in pop music, but I didn’t
really get how good lyrics could be. He really opened my eyes to how
important good lyrics were! Obviously, I’ve worked with Pulp and
Jarvis’ lyrics are equally as good, but they’re very different.”
*As Suede’s lyrics mean so much to their fans, I ask Ed what he
thinks about the band’s devoted fanbase*
“It’s funny, because when I got back to England, I had a
meeting with my Manager – who was also my Manager when I worked
with Suede and is now my Manager again – and we were just talking
about what I’d done and she said, “The trouble with Suede,
is that they’re Marmite aren’t they?” And that’s
really interesting from a Managerial perspective and a business perspective,
you look at them and think, that successful bands do really elicit that
response and it’s not necessarily a bad thing. You know, Coldplay’s
fans are die-hard, but people who don’t like Coldplay think they’re
awful. I think all bands that really have something (pausing), it’s
the bands that don’t really elicit a response, where people think,
“They’re alright.” Those bands can have careers, but
they don’t generally get written about 40 years later, whereas
I think Suede (pausing), I was very in with Suede and I was very close
to them as people, I was very, very fond of them and being in a room
with Suede was a lot of fun – it was like being in A Hard Day’s
Night! Mat, Simon and Brett were hysterical and although Bernard could
be very funny, he was quite a serious person. I think that’s one
of the reasons why their fanbase is as loyal as it is, because they
know they’re real characters as well, they’re not bland people.”
15.Lastly, chips or cream buns?
“I’d have chips!”
A very special thanks to Ed, and to Vicky @ 140dB,
for all of their time and help.
http://www.140db.co.uk/?page_id=279
www.suede.co.uk
“I’m a fan of creative tension,
Because if an idea’s worth being on a record,
It’s worth fighting for!”
|
usicm
the 3rd album?