what did you make of the romp in the jungle?
- (AS) Im not impressed by all those mindless, boring, gunky gameshows
of any description really; Im sure Lydon would say its Cash
from Chaos" and a re-run of the Great RocknRoll Swindle,
but theres an awful lot more interesting things he could have
done. Ive only seen about 5 minutes of it and its completely
lobotomised as far as Im concerned; its aimed at people
with the intellectual capacity of a lobotomised flounder, but good luck
to him if thats what he wants to do, but I preferred what he did
with The Sex Pistols!
* Not much to do with punk, you think?
(AS) Punk to me, in any case, is a way of life and an attitude; punk
to me is the thousands and millions of people, probably, all over the
world who are organising their own gigs, running their own venues, doing
their own thing. These days its about DIY, its about Do
It Yourself, its an independent, underground culture. In one sense
Lydon is only confirming what happened when it started; The Pistols
were a fantastic catalyst but they were a construct, put together by
Malcolm McClaren and on The Great RocknRoll Swindle,
the film, they and McClaren quite cynically exposed the entire RocknRoll
myth for what it is. So Lydon would probably say that the Celebrity
programme was the logical thing to do!
Chris Miller, or should I call you Rat Scabies..?
- (RS) Call me whatever youre most comfortable with!
* I think most probably Chris Miller in that case. Do you agree with
- (RS) No, not all of it. First of all, I like our celebrities having
to earn a living; these people are celebrities and I want to know what
(RS) So I think its a good thing that theyre working so
we can see why theyre celebrities, or why theyre not, and
I find that if youve got the cruel sense of humour that enjoys
Mike Leigh plays, then youd have found the first three days absolutely
brilliant, watching these people sounding each other out and establishing
a hierarchy and pecking order.
* But if Johnny Rotten stood for something, and he did, hasnt
he sold out? Isnt this saying that the revolutions over?
- (RS) What would he want to win for?
* No, I dont mean sold out in the sense of walking out of the
show, absolutely not, I mean for taking part in the first place?
- (RS) No, I dont think so; I think the point is that hes
got a career on the go which needs publicity and exposure, and this
is a great way to do it, you couldnt buy the type of publicity
hes got from this. Why shouldnt he do this, what else is
* Well perhaps hes not anymore, but isnt he supposed
to be nihilistic, anarchistic and those kind of things?
- (AS) Well I guess hed say thats what he was being, but
this celebrity concept is very, very odd you dont have
to actually do anything or to have done anything to be a celebrity.
One of the contestants was that Lord bloke whos famous for getting
nicked for fraud, and then theres Jordan whos famous for
having big breasts; well if shes a celebrity sos my wife
as she has lovely big breasts! Its completely ridiculous!
* Has your wife got an agent?
- (AS) Just me!
* Youre not doing a bad job! So does this all mean the end
(AS) No, absolutely not! Punk is nothing to do with Johnny Rotten, old
compilation albums or any of that sort of thing. Punk is about whats
happening throughout the world, for example I do 120 gigs a year, many
of them in mainland Europe in Germany for instance theres
a network of about 300 alternative centres run by independent groups,
by left wing groups, by groups committed to political and cultural ideals,
and that is what punk rocks about! Its about people producing
independent records. People producing independent fanzines, running
independent gigs; its not about a celebrity like Rotten or even
any of the fantastic things hes been involved with in the
past, its about whats happening out there in the underground
- (RS) But its not those things,
is it? Well thats what its turned into, thats what
people associate it with, but really its about getting away with
whatever you can cos youve got nothing to lose. If youve
got nothing, you can only gain in the world, that was our philosophy.
We had very little and we had to do gigs, it wasnt that we could
go out and refuse to sign a contractor get put on by promoters, we didnt
have a choice...
We'll have to end it there...